Oct. 24, 2024

January Jones sharing The Manchurian Journalist: The CIA, and the Corruption of Amerian Journalism

January Jones sharing The Manchurian Journalist: The CIA, and the Corruption of Amerian Journalism

Dan Luzadder’s in-depth, extensively documented, and critical examination of the Fourth Estate is a tough look at what must be done to restore the independence and integrity of America’s watchdog of democracy, its independent journalists. “As...

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Dan Luzadder’s in-depth, extensively documented, and critical examination of the Fourth Estate is a tough look at what must be done to restore the independence and integrity of America’s watchdog of democracy, its independent journalists. “As the nation witnesses the collapse of fact-based, unbiased, democracy-supporting journalism, amid our current political dystopia, a truly free and independent press remains a democratic dream yet unrealized,” said Luzadder.

January Jones Sharing Senior Success is broadcast live Thursdays at 3PM ET Music on W4CY Radio (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com January Jones Sharing Senior Success is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).

January Jones Sharing Senior Success Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.

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The topics and opinions expressed in the following show are

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solely those of the hosts and their guests, and not

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those of w FOCY Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We

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be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for choosing

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W FOURCY Radio.

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Who is January Jones. She is not a young, beautiful,

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talented actress on Madman. She is not an older, gorgeous

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exotic dancer from The Johnny Carson Show. She is an

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author and she wrote Thou Show Not Why the Eleventh

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Commandment that rates number one at Amazon dot com. She

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is a reality TV golf personality with World High Stakes

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Golf televised on hd Net. She is a humorist and

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whineologist expert. She is your featured host today on January

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Jones sharing success stories. So sit back, relax, and get

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ready to laugh and listen to Ms Jones with her

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eclectic roster of guests as you learn life's lessons. These

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stories plus sharing equal success. Welcome and remember beware because

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you are entering the no whining world of January Jones.

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Hello everyone, I hope you're having a glittering, glowing day.

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I'm January Jones, and i'd like to welcome you to

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our podcast today. As you know, I have a new brand,

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glitter Granny, and I'm advertising my website, glittergranny dot com.

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We sell at this website. We fell glitter, jewel, read cups, hats,

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you name it, we sell it. I'm an associate affiliate

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with Amazon along with my golden doodle, ginger Ale. Now,

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every granny out there, it's time for you to get

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ready to glitter and glow with us and go shopping

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with us. Go to glittergranny dot com and be prepared

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to start spending some money. Once you go there, you'll

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sign up and you can get my free ebook. Thou

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shalt not wind? The eleventh commandment went to number one

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at Amazon in religion and humor. Who knew profits from

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this website go to disabled American Veterans Sarasota, Florida Company A.

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Now let me ask you a question. Have you ever

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met an investigative reporter. Yeah, we're going to meet one today.

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Tell me, have you ever even met a journalist, a

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real life journal journalist. Have you ever met a journalist

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who has an amazing story to tell and who happens

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to be a Pulitzer Prize winner? Tell me what do

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you know about the CIA and its connection to journalism?

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Or can you imagine how a journalist could be connected

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to the CIA? Well? I can imagine anything these days.

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So now let me ask you. Have you ever heard

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about a book? It's called The Manchurian Journalist. Yeah, I

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know we've all heard about the Candidate, but now this

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book is called The Man Centurion Journalists. If you can

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answer yes or maybe to any of these questions, then

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you are in the right place, and I'd like to

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welcome you to January Jones sharing senior success stories.

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Today.

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I want to tell you a little bit about my guest.

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But before I do, it's time for you to rest, relax, Go,

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get some cheese, get some crackers, get a glass of wine,

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and join us in the no lin uone. Now, let

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me tell you about my guest today. He is an

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investigative journalist reporter whose career is marked by high profile

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stories throughout the years. He is a Pulitzer Prize winning

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writer and he has spent more than forty years on

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the front lines of American journalism for newspapers and for magazines.

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His recent book is an in depth, extensively documented research

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critical examination of the Fourth Estate. It's a tough look

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at what must be done to restore the independence and

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integrity of America's watchdog of democracy, It's independent journalists. He

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is the author of The Manchurian Journalists, Laurence Wright, The

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CIA and the Corruption of American Journalism. It's my pleasure

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to welcome to the show today, Dan Lesadder. Hi Dan,

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how are you doing.

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Hi January, Thanks for having me on. I'm doing great today.

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Oh and you know what I forgot to add, you

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also have a dog named al Compone.

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Well, I'm sorry to say that all has passed on,

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but he was a He was a great companion for

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many years, and he certainly heard me tell many stories

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over the course of that because when nobody else would

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listen to me, he always would.

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That's why I've made Gingeril my assessment assistant for Glitter Granny,

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and she never argues with me.

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That's the best important you.

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Well, we're going to talk first of all about your career.

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I know you started amazingly when you were only fifteen

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years and you had a job with the newspaper.

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Could you tell us a little bit about.

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Your early success story and who were your mentors who

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helped you start in this wonderful career.

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Well, interestingly, I had many mentors along the way, and

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at various levels in various places. But I got interested

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in journalism when I was still in high school, and

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I had a mentor who was an English teacher who

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quickly recognized that that well, I couldn't do much else,

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I could write a simple sentence, and so I went.

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It was during the Vietnam War, and I went immediately

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from a high school graduation into college so I could

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get a college department at the time, and right onto

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a college newspaper and did some sports reporting for the

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college paper. And then a job came up on the

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local daily to work police beat. And of course I'd

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had a pretty sheltered life by that point, but I

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had my eyes opened in the early days of working

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the night cops beat and trying to cover everything that moved.

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These were the days of line of types and hard deadlines,

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and things were always up and in a hurry in

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the newsroom, and so it was a real education, but

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it was also a kind of adrenaline rush that hooked

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me and kept me in the business with it. Were

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a good long time afterwards.

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Well, you know, my husband and I we are still

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big fans. We subscribe to two newspapers every day that

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are delivered.

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To the house.

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We can't start our day without our coffee and reading

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the newspapers, and then later on we turned on the

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TVs to get their slant on the news.

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Yeah, usually a different take, I'm sure, Oh.

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Absolutely absolutely. And you started out in Fort.

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Wayne, Well, I started out in Monthsly, my hometown actually

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Months Indiana. But then after I graduated college, I spent

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a few months as an Amish carpenter and then decided

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I really didn't want to do journalism. And so at

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the time there were hardly any jobs available in journalism.

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It was an economic downturn. But I found an opening

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at Fort Wayne News Sentinel on their copy desk. And

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while I wanted to be a writer and the last

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thing I really wanted to do was at a copy

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I took the job to get back in the door.

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And I stayed in that job for almost a year,

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and then the editor called me into his office and

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he said, he said, close the door. He said, you're

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the worst copy editor I ever hired. I said, oh

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my gosh, I keep my dictionary close at hand. I

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know I'm not a great speller. But he said, no,

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it's not that. He said, you rewrite everybody's copy and

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it sounds like you. He said, I got thirty five

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reporters out there. I'd like for him to sound like themselves.

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Oh so am I fired. He said, no, you're a

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new columnist. I didn't have much to write about in

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those days. The column was called street Talk, and I

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just was imagining what it might be. But later on

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I developed a lot of sources out on the street

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and wrote a lot of human interest columns. And it

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was there that I wrote, like cut my teeth on writing.

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I think, okay, that fascinates me. How many columns a

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week did you have to produce?

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I did three week, and over the course of the

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years I was there some nine hundred columns altogether. But

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while it started, the columns started out as an idea

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of being able to tell stories about common people. I

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didn't have any sources at the start, but by the

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end I developed so many sources that I started doing

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investigative stories on the side. I exposed a plot to

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commit murder while it was in process and brought the

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police in on it. And then later I investigated a

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hotel arson in which I turned up evidence of public corruption.

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And it was then not too long after that I

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got an offer from the Indianapolis started joined there investigative team,

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which was a pretty high profile and very efficient team,

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and then I got into the hardcore kinds of reporting.

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Yeah, let's back up a little bit on this columnist

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career started out with Now that would terrify me to

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have three deadlines each week?

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And how long was each column? There were usually about

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seven hundred seven and fifty words. Of course, by the

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time I had done that, I had been out there

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in the trenches writing stories under deadline, and I had

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become pretty accustomed to the need to write fast. And

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I like to tell I always told my kids about

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the toughest night on police speed. I did eleven stories

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under byline in one night, and there was no time

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to take notes, so I had to keep it all

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on my head. You know, so that gave me, I think,

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some foundation for doing that. Plus I took the column

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places that most columnists don't go. When I found it

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tough to find a column, I'd take a walk through

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the snow in the local park and reflect on the

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changing seasons. So I can always find something to write about.

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And I always told my kids, you know, I can

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write seven hundred and fifty words on anything, and my.

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Gosh, nine hundred columns. That just blows my mind. And

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that became was that your first.

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Book, Street Talk, well Street Talk actually and the Manchurian

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Journalists came out not only in the same month but

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on the same day from two different publishers. There was

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a little bit of ironing for you. But the Street

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Talk book was really inspired by my daughter, who's listened

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patiently to stories over the years, and finally she said,

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you know, you should collect these columns in a book.

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And I said, well, who has time, and I'll curate

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for you. So she did the curation and the editing,

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and up there that's cheating. We got to published. So,

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as I've told her, and as I've commented on that book,

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it was one of the times in my career that

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I think I enjoyed the most because I was still

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learning and experimenting and trying my hand at different things.

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And by the time we got to the Pulitzer material,

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which was the coverage of the flood in Fort Wayne

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in nineteen eighty two, and I shared that award with

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other members of the staff. But my work was collected

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in college textbooks on how to write feature stories under

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the press of deadline. Oh wow, So that was a

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nice thing happened. But the but telling stories was part

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of my became part of my DNA, and I'm still

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doing it at seventy six. I'm active still seventy six.

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Wow, you're just a kid to me. You know. It's interesting.

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I wrote my first book when I was fifty, and

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as I look back over thirty years, I just am

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so amazed at what has happened in the publishing world

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and what we have gone from. The first book was

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a do it yourself and then all of a sudden,

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the evolution of writing which has become possible for just

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pretty much anyone who has a computer, and things like

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Kindle and direct publishing and Amazon for writers. This is

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just an amazing time to be alive, isn't it. It is.

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It's there are lots of different opportunities out there, although

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I think it's also and I've commented on this as

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I've talked about journal and the change in journalism during

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my years that well, we saw the Internet as an

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opportunity to open things up beyond the gatekeepers of the

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traditional media. We've also gotten so many voices out there

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that we're not sure who to listen to and how

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much they might have.

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It's become a totally confusing time as people who are

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interested in getting the news, people who are interested in

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reporting the real news, and all the opinions. It's just

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been very confusing for everyone. But one thing I'm not

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confused about, and that's about being Glitter Granny. We're going

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to hear from her and we'll be right back with Dan.

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Welcome to Glitter Granny Gifts to Give or to Get,

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hosted by January Jones aka Glitter Granny and her Golden

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Doodle ginger Ale. If you're a granny who wants to

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glitter and glow, it's time to join us for a

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sparkling shopping experience that will be unique and so very special.

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Whenever you need a unique and spectacular gift, then Granny

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will help you find it. Along with gifts for family,

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friends and holidays. There are even glitter gifts for coworkers,

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in laws, doctors, and you can even find something for

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your friend who has everything.

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If you need a really good.

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Gag gift, you'll find it here. Hats, canes, shoes, accessories.

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When it comes to glitter accessories, Granny and ginger Ale

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are on board with everything you can imagine and then

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some more. The favorites are at her website, and remember

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she is adding to this list almost every day with

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lots of fun gifts to give or to get. Granny

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has created a website that is glamorous and glows with

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glitter products to wear or to use every day. As

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she says, if it ain't that blank and doesn't mean

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a thing, now let me tell you about her glitter

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hat collection. She actually has too many to count. Her

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collections are must have accessories for any glitter Granny who

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enjoys getting attention everywhere she goes. Remember, if people are

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going to stare at you, make it worthwhile for them

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and canes, everyone will ask you where did you get it?

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Can I get one?

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Too?

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Now? Just go to glitter granny dot com and check

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it out out.

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Welcome back with my guest Dan Lasader. Dan, there's wonderful

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You have two books out now, and could you share

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with our listeners where they can get them and your

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website information.

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Well, Amazon dot com of course, in Barnes Andnoble dot com.

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They're available from Trin Day, the publisher at trinday dot

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com and street Talk from Britain Publishing dot com and

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also from Amazon, oh, et cetera. I'm still in the

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process of sewing my website together, but Danelousadder dot com

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is that site and your fine referrals there on to

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Trin Day.

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Yeah, and we'll be featuring Dan's book at glennar Grannie Bookshelf,

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where we'll take you directly to Amazon where you can

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order his both of his books. Dan, let's talk about

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some of theies that you were involved on. I know

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you mentioned the flood Through story where you got the

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Pulitzer Prize, but your Burger I thought the burger chef

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story was fascinating in that they were never actually caught.

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No, And I'm working on a documentary film with an

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LA filmmaker right now on this case, and it's a

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case that I've been looking at really since nineteen eighty.

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It was an event, the murders of four kids from

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a Burger Chef restaurant in Speedway, Indiana and the veritable

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shadow of the Indianapolis five hundred racetrack was the third

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actually of a series of crimes that occurred over six months,

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and there was another murder, the murder of a grandmother

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in her garage in a apparent assassination, and then there

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were a string of bombings and Speedway that followed a

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month later. It lasted for several days, and then this

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kidnapping and murder case. So the murders, none of them

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have ever been solved. But someone went to prison for

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the bombings, and he became quite well known during the

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presidential campaign for George W. Bush because he said from

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prison that he had sold marijuana to the vice presidential candidate,

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Dan Quayle. So there was a lot of controversy. A

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book was written about him about that. But the true

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story behind the bombings and the murders has to do

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with police corruption that has never really been exposed. And

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I believe that the reason that the murders have never

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been solved is because of a cover up that occurred

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and a wrongful conviction for this individual, and the speedway bombs.

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Oh my gosh, well fascinating, and then I enjoy I'm

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in the process of your book, but I've been jumping

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around just so I can figure out some good questions.

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Tell us a little bit about what it was like

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being covering the Columbine tragic tragic story.

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Columbine was really the last major project I did for

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daily newspapers on an investigative side, and I was working

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for the Rocky Mountain News in Denver, the late Great

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Rocky Mountain News, which closed several years ago, unfortunately, but

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it was an interesting time. My involvement in the Columbine

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coverage came with some hesitation. Even though I had been

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hired as an investigative reporter, I had been moved over

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to cover the state House by an editor who I'd

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had a couple of clashes with over what we should

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be writing about or not. So I was kind of

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on a punishment detail there at the state House. While

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a lot of people liked to cover the legislature, it

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wasn't what I wanted to be doing. But when Columbine happened,

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they called in all the reporters from everywhere, but they

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didn't call me into the newsroom to participate. And two

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days went by and I didn't get a call. But

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on the third day, the city editor called me and

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he said they had a problem and they needed my help.

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And I said, well, what's the problem and how can

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I help? And they said, well, the Denver Post had

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maintained its police bead and it kept a reporter assigned there,

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but the Rocky had failed to keep a police reporter

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working on the Jefferson County Sheriff's department, so they had

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no sources. And of course the police were not answering

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their telephones, so they were idly leaving messages and not

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getting any return. I said, well, what is it you

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want me to do? He said, can you find out

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who's running the investigation? I said, okay, give me an hour.

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And so I had done not too long prior to that,

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I had done an investigation into organized crime attempting to

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take over the taxi industry in Denver, and course of

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that I uncovered drug running and gun running that had

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gone on using the taxis. And so I had developed

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a lot of sources in the underground gun in his environment.

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And so I started calling sources who were informants for

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police that I had met or known, and finally I

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found one and I asked him what the police were

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most focused on, and he said they were looking for

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tying down where the guns came from in Columbine. I

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asked him where did they come from, and he said,

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I can't tell you. However, if you'll look up a

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case of a Jefferson County Sheriff's deputy who was shot

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and killed, I think you'll find the gun came from

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the same place as the guns the police are looking.

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Wow.

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Wow. So I called the newsroom's library right away. I

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got the information on the detective who had handled that

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investigation officer, and I called his phone, and of course

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I got a recording, but I said, I'd like to

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know where the guns came from that was used to

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kill Officer Mussbrucker and left my number, and about fifteen

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minutes later I got a call from who was running

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the investigation. He said, you asked a question of my detective.

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I want to know why, I said, I said, meet

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me for coffee and I'll tell you. So we negotiated

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an agreement where I would come on the inside of

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the investigation, and I spent the next several months working

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with the cops on the inside and seeing everything that

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they had seen and doing interviews with police officers affected

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by the investigation.

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So thoroughly, that's that's a great story for an investigative reporter.

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To use your sources and your angles wherever you can.

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Yeah, it's connection, connection, connection, and it's I love the

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part where you say let's go have a cup of coffee.

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That means that.

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Means let's really talk, okay, And then you jump into

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this Manchurian Journalist, which was an incredible title, I have

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to tell you, just because of the connection most of

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our generation and everyone has with that word and the

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Manchurian Candidate, which was such a famous book movie, great title.

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And you're looking at the connection between the CIA and journalism, basically,

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aren't you.

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Yes? And I didn't expect to go to that place ever,

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and really didn't head that direction for any particular reason

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other than I did some work for a little magazine

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which was based out of la called Freedom Magazine, which

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was owned by the Church of Scientology, and I was

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contacted by them. They were looking to revive their magazine

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and were looking for an investigative reporter, and so I

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knew nothing about scientology at the time I began to

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explore it. I found what controversy there was surrounding it.

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But one of the things they asked me to do

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is take a look into the media coverage as to

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whether or not it had been fair and honest. And

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among that media coverage was a book called Growing Clear

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by Lawrence Wright. He's an author for The New Yorker.

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He's written many books. He's written books about many different subjects,

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and so I began to take a look at the

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book for accuracy and for intent. And as I was

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doing that research, I decided I should background Lawrence write

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a little bit. And what I discovered was something I

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didn't expect to find, which was that he had had

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00:27:09.440 --> 00:27:14.559
ties to some very powerful individuals in Dallas, Texas who

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were involved deeply with CIA activities and directly with efforts

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to influence American media in newspapers and magazines and in

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00:27:27.519 --> 00:27:32.200
book publishing, most dramatically. And then as I continued to

402
00:27:32.240 --> 00:27:35.240
pull threads on that story, discovered that Lawrence Wright had

403
00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:40.119
participated in some programs that were dedicated through the CIA

404
00:27:40.359 --> 00:27:47.279
and its intelligence affiliates in the private sector to help

405
00:27:47.400 --> 00:27:52.599
develop propaganda programs throughout the throughout the world really, but

406
00:27:53.119 --> 00:27:57.599
also focus backward at the American public. And so the

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00:27:57.640 --> 00:28:04.119
book details mine instigation into that and documents how I

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uncovered those things and raises questions about about the use

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of journalists and journalist ties to intelligence communities that are

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not disclosed to the public and to their readers. And

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so that's what the book looks at. It looks at

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the role of journalism in our American democracy and the

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importance of it, and also at how the press can

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be manipulated in ways that we don't realize and don't understand.

415
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Well, you know, as I told you before we went

416
00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:44.119
out of the air, we lived in California, and the

417
00:28:44.160 --> 00:28:48.240
scientology thing that took place there was incredible. Of course,

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so many the Hollywood people, Tom Cruise and all of

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that was so out in the public. And it's interesting that,

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00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:03.440
in your opinion, how did it get resolved.

421
00:29:05.880 --> 00:29:10.400
Which part There were many parts of controversy. But you know,

422
00:29:10.680 --> 00:29:11.160
when I.

423
00:29:13.400 --> 00:29:15.960
What, they're still in business, aren't they.

424
00:29:16.119 --> 00:29:19.359
Oh, they're still in business, most certain, Yes, And even

425
00:29:19.400 --> 00:29:25.000
though there has been extensive criticism and accusations of cult

426
00:29:25.079 --> 00:29:30.319
activity and a lot of negative press. What I found

427
00:29:30.400 --> 00:29:33.799
in my research was that very little of that was

428
00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:38.599
based on factual information, more on rumored in Yuando. That

429
00:29:38.720 --> 00:29:42.720
doesn't mean that there weren't significant controversies involving the church

430
00:29:42.799 --> 00:29:48.920
and disagreements, but I think when I and I actually

431
00:29:48.920 --> 00:29:52.599
traveled the world, meeting people in churches as far away

432
00:29:52.680 --> 00:29:59.319
as as Hungary and Australia, and I did say when

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I went to work in this relationship, I said, any

434
00:30:03.319 --> 00:30:06.680
question that I ask about what happened, I need to

435
00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:11.440
see documentation on and they and they were good about

436
00:30:11.480 --> 00:30:16.400
providing that. I think one of the they were excellent

437
00:30:16.440 --> 00:30:19.319
at providing documentation as a matter of fact, and there

438
00:30:19.319 --> 00:30:23.440
were sessions in which boxes and boxes of materials were

439
00:30:23.480 --> 00:30:27.519
carded into rooms to make them available to take a

440
00:30:27.519 --> 00:30:30.680
look at. But one of the things that one of

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the reasons that, as I say in the book, that

442
00:30:33.799 --> 00:30:37.880
I decided to take a look and to take on

443
00:30:37.960 --> 00:30:42.599
this challenge of looking at the media coverage focused backward

444
00:30:42.640 --> 00:30:46.839
of my own industry was that I think my history

445
00:30:46.880 --> 00:30:53.119
has been one in which I've not assumed that what

446
00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:57.400
everyone believes is true is necessarily true. And I spent

447
00:30:57.640 --> 00:31:03.759
many years investigating conditions in state and federal prisons, and

448
00:31:03.799 --> 00:31:07.279
in order to do that, you've got to suspend some

449
00:31:07.359 --> 00:31:11.720
personal beliefs or concerns or ideas about who the people

450
00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:15.119
are that you're writing about. So I had some practice

451
00:31:16.240 --> 00:31:20.640
at that. I had developed such a significant source network

452
00:31:20.720 --> 00:31:24.240
at one time in the Indiana State Prisons that when

453
00:31:24.279 --> 00:31:28.240
there was a hostage taking on death row, the inmates

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00:31:28.279 --> 00:31:33.599
insisted on negotiating with me, and I was called in

455
00:31:33.680 --> 00:31:36.200
to negotiate for hostages that night on.

456
00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:43.000
Oh my, it's great because we're from that generation that

457
00:31:43.079 --> 00:31:49.400
we know all about sources, bibliographies and documentation. That's where

458
00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:53.119
it's all at. Now I'm going to share with everyone

459
00:31:53.359 --> 00:31:56.119
a book that I recently have written, and it's now

460
00:31:56.200 --> 00:31:58.319
available at Amazon dot.

461
00:31:58.200 --> 00:32:10.680
Two, Introducing Living and Dying Without Whining, a memoir eighty

462
00:32:10.839 --> 00:32:17.599
Years of Magical Moments, written by January Jones. Miss Jones

463
00:32:17.720 --> 00:32:26.440
shares her most exciting and magical moments, Patriotic moments landing

464
00:32:26.480 --> 00:32:34.400
on aircraft carrier USS Carl Vincent, staying overnight then catapulting off,

465
00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:45.000
revealing moments working for the CIA for five years, Thrilling

466
00:32:45.559 --> 00:32:53.359
and comforting moments meeting Charles Lindbergh and Neil Armstrong together.

467
00:32:55.279 --> 00:33:04.559
Sassy moments Swinging Sixties and the Seven, The Age of Aquarius,

468
00:33:04.559 --> 00:33:11.319
Exciting moments as a TV contestant on Jokers, Wild and

469
00:33:11.799 --> 00:33:18.279
Family Feud, Reality moments playing in the World Series of

470
00:33:18.359 --> 00:33:25.119
Golf on Reality TV. Career moments as a stewardess for

471
00:33:25.319 --> 00:33:32.720
Eastern Airlines. Touching moments with meeting a half brother she

472
00:33:33.000 --> 00:33:39.799
never knew about, with many many more magical moments. Living

473
00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:42.960
and Dying Without Whining.

474
00:33:43.240 --> 00:33:50.359
A memoir eighty Years of Magical Moments written by January Jones,

475
00:33:51.160 --> 00:33:57.920
available at Amazon dot com and Audible dot com.

476
00:33:58.599 --> 00:34:03.279
Welcome back with my us, Dan Losedter Ben. Let's talk

477
00:34:03.319 --> 00:34:07.759
a little bit now about the deep state. This is

478
00:34:07.799 --> 00:34:11.639
a term we hear all the time, and I'm be

479
00:34:11.760 --> 00:34:16.159
curious to know your theory, because you know, we hear

480
00:34:16.239 --> 00:34:20.599
deep state, but we don't usually hear names connected to.

481
00:34:20.519 --> 00:34:27.639
It, not normally well. In the course of researching this book,

482
00:34:28.360 --> 00:34:33.440
the journalists, I started going back in history to better

483
00:34:33.559 --> 00:34:40.199
understand what the environment was like and why there was

484
00:34:40.519 --> 00:34:46.280
a program, why there were programs that existed to propagandize

485
00:34:46.360 --> 00:34:52.159
the American public, and so within that research, I discovered

486
00:34:52.159 --> 00:34:55.559
some interesting things that I was not aware of, and

487
00:34:55.639 --> 00:34:59.440
most people probably are not aware of. But at the

488
00:34:59.559 --> 00:35:04.119
end of World War Two, when there was the initial

489
00:35:04.159 --> 00:35:10.239
development of the Central Intelligence Agency as a civilian intelligence agency,

490
00:35:10.280 --> 00:35:13.880
there were a lot of cautions I discovered at the time,

491
00:35:13.960 --> 00:35:18.320
and a lot of disagreement. In fact, Harry Truman was

492
00:35:18.360 --> 00:35:22.119
one of those who wasn't convinced that a civilian intelligence

493
00:35:22.119 --> 00:35:24.960
agency was the right thing for them to do. But

494
00:35:25.199 --> 00:35:29.719
eventually there were a number of very powerful individuals who

495
00:35:30.920 --> 00:35:35.960
had extreme influence who were able to help direct and

496
00:35:36.119 --> 00:35:40.079
shape the nature of the Central Intelligence Agency, and those

497
00:35:40.159 --> 00:35:45.079
included people like John McCloy, who, when he passed the

498
00:35:45.079 --> 00:35:48.400
New York Times described as the chairman of the establishment.

499
00:35:48.920 --> 00:35:53.679
He was a powerful lawyer. He had a lot of

500
00:35:53.719 --> 00:35:58.559
experience with intelligence organizations. In the course of his lawyerhood,

501
00:35:59.079 --> 00:36:03.519
he became Assistant Secretary of War during World War Two,

502
00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:06.880
and he was the governor for the occupation of Germany,

503
00:36:07.400 --> 00:36:11.719
and he helped shape decisions that were made in the

504
00:36:11.840 --> 00:36:16.800
Nuremberg War Trials about prosecution of individuals who were involved

505
00:36:16.840 --> 00:36:20.800
in intelligence on the Eastern Front for the Nazis, and

506
00:36:21.039 --> 00:36:27.119
the agency ended up recruiting many hundreds of agents that

507
00:36:27.239 --> 00:36:30.239
had worked this Eastern Front, even though they had been

508
00:36:31.000 --> 00:36:35.800
considered for trial for war crimes, and those individuals became

509
00:36:35.920 --> 00:36:41.239
part of the international organization that the CIA was affiliated with.

510
00:36:42.079 --> 00:36:46.480
And John McCloy was an individual who, with his experience

511
00:36:46.519 --> 00:36:50.559
and intelligence, believed in the importance of say, black bag jobs,

512
00:36:51.159 --> 00:36:55.920
which were secret operations that might be conducted wherever necessary.

513
00:36:56.280 --> 00:37:00.400
And even though the CIA was prohibited by law operating

514
00:37:00.440 --> 00:37:05.639
within the confines of the US, what I discovered was

515
00:37:05.840 --> 00:37:10.480
that there was a very thin membrane between what was

516
00:37:10.840 --> 00:37:15.599
considered domestic and what was considered international, and that was

517
00:37:16.199 --> 00:37:22.079
very porous, especially in their interest in helping shape Western

518
00:37:22.119 --> 00:37:28.960
cultural ideas and fighting communism, and so that recruiting publishers

519
00:37:29.719 --> 00:37:33.480
and people to work in the publishing industry, those people

520
00:37:33.519 --> 00:37:36.639
who would select people who were going to have good

521
00:37:36.719 --> 00:37:42.480
careers and as writers. And it was a very extensive

522
00:37:42.599 --> 00:37:46.800
network that was carefully groomed, and it was funded by

523
00:37:47.480 --> 00:37:51.559
foundations that were formed as front companies for the Central

524
00:37:51.599 --> 00:37:56.199
Intelligence Agency. One of those was called the Hobblitzell Foundation

525
00:37:56.360 --> 00:38:01.360
out of Dallas, Texas, affiliated with republic National Bank, and

526
00:38:01.480 --> 00:38:04.480
also affiliated with the bank was a man named Robert Story,

527
00:38:04.559 --> 00:38:08.639
who was the head of the American Bar Association, head

528
00:38:08.639 --> 00:38:13.159
of the International Bar Association, and the chief executive trial

529
00:38:13.199 --> 00:38:17.400
prosecutor in the Nuremberg War trials, also making decisions about

530
00:38:17.440 --> 00:38:23.039
who would not and so in this network out of Dallas,

531
00:38:23.079 --> 00:38:29.519
there was tremendous financial influence for these clandestine programs domestically,

532
00:38:29.920 --> 00:38:34.159
and some of that came to light in various newspaper

533
00:38:34.239 --> 00:38:38.719
reports over time, disclosures that happened in Congress, some of

534
00:38:38.760 --> 00:38:46.199
them accidental, and so gradually it became those programs became visible,

535
00:38:46.239 --> 00:38:52.320
but they were not reported about in an omnibus way

536
00:38:52.920 --> 00:38:55.760
by major media like the New York Times of the

537
00:38:55.840 --> 00:39:00.320
Washington Post or others. And as I look further, began

538
00:39:00.360 --> 00:39:07.000
to see where journalists were favored by the agencies and

539
00:39:07.039 --> 00:39:12.360
those who were willing to help indoctrinate on certain ideas

540
00:39:12.519 --> 00:39:15.840
what was acceptable or what was not acceptable to report,

541
00:39:15.960 --> 00:39:20.920
including things like racism and other things that have been

542
00:39:21.119 --> 00:39:22.760
detrimental to the democracy.

543
00:39:23.320 --> 00:39:29.400
Okay, So, and you zeroed in on Lawrence Wright in particular,

544
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:35.440
who I believe is still working for the New Yorker. Yes, yeah,

545
00:39:36.679 --> 00:39:41.840
and I believe he is told his associates generally not

546
00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:42.679
to talk.

547
00:39:42.480 --> 00:39:45.800
To you, right, that's correct. He did so on Twitter

548
00:39:46.880 --> 00:39:49.159
and he said that I was not a reporter, but

549
00:39:49.239 --> 00:39:54.360
a private investigator hired my scientology to stock him, which

550
00:39:55.719 --> 00:39:59.280
was not true. I had had several conversations with Lawrence

551
00:39:59.320 --> 00:40:01.559
Wright at the time he posted that, and he knew

552
00:40:01.639 --> 00:40:04.280
well what my background was and what I was after,

553
00:40:04.360 --> 00:40:06.599
which was to talk to him about the things that

554
00:40:06.639 --> 00:40:10.559
I had found. The same way any journalists would approach it,

555
00:40:10.679 --> 00:40:12.960
if they were to approach.

556
00:40:12.599 --> 00:40:20.199
It, very good. You were just doing your job. Interesting connection.

557
00:40:20.719 --> 00:40:22.960
A lot of connections, there aren't there.

558
00:40:23.199 --> 00:40:26.400
There are, There are many connections, and as I would discover,

559
00:40:27.480 --> 00:40:31.159
there was a very interesting character in this mix in

560
00:40:31.199 --> 00:40:35.199
this history, a woman named Helen Van and she was

561
00:40:35.519 --> 00:40:37.960
she had led an interesting life. She was from Oregon

562
00:40:39.239 --> 00:40:43.519
and she wound up married to a man who had

563
00:40:43.599 --> 00:40:47.159
deep ties to the British intelligence network. She went on

564
00:40:47.320 --> 00:40:53.039
to found something called the Radcliffe Publishing Procedures Course. Many

565
00:40:53.119 --> 00:40:57.000
people have vaguely heard of that course because yearly it

566
00:40:57.079 --> 00:41:02.239
published a list of the one hundred most read novels

567
00:41:03.360 --> 00:41:07.280
and the Top one hundred list. But the Radcliffe Publishing

568
00:41:07.320 --> 00:41:11.800
Procedures Course existed as a six week summer course at

569
00:41:11.920 --> 00:41:16.599
Radcliffe College each year, and it recruited some sixty to

570
00:41:16.679 --> 00:41:21.360
seventy individuals who were interested in being in the publishing industry.

571
00:41:22.119 --> 00:41:25.280
And it turns out that Helen Ben in addition to

572
00:41:25.519 --> 00:41:29.079
doing that, was representing the State Department in something called

573
00:41:29.119 --> 00:41:33.280
the Franklin Books Project, which was a propaganda program funded

574
00:41:33.320 --> 00:41:37.239
through the CIA and the State Department. When I realized that,

575
00:41:37.599 --> 00:41:40.519
and also realized that Lawrence Wright had been a student

576
00:41:40.599 --> 00:41:44.360
in her class in nineteen sixty nine, I began to

577
00:41:44.519 --> 00:41:49.719
track elements of her relationship and association and her important

578
00:41:49.760 --> 00:41:54.920
work in helping populate the publishing industry with individuals that

579
00:41:55.119 --> 00:41:59.039
had been recruited through her program. She had a ninety

580
00:41:59.079 --> 00:42:03.159
six or ninety seven percent placement rate for graduates of

581
00:42:03.239 --> 00:42:09.760
her six week summer course in the publishing industry. That's

582
00:42:09.800 --> 00:42:17.480
a very amazing success rate unheard of these eyes. And

583
00:42:18.159 --> 00:42:22.000
the fact that the Hoblitzell Foundation in Dallas and the

584
00:42:22.079 --> 00:42:27.320
relationship with Robert's Story became important because Robert Story owned

585
00:42:27.320 --> 00:42:32.440
a storefront bank and hired Lawrence Wright's father to run

586
00:42:32.480 --> 00:42:36.079
that bank for him, and that bank I discovered also

587
00:42:36.280 --> 00:42:40.079
had more loan officers working for it than it could

588
00:42:40.119 --> 00:42:44.480
support with its financial performance, and so had all the

589
00:42:44.519 --> 00:42:48.400
earmarks of what they call in the intelligence network, nonofficial

590
00:42:48.480 --> 00:42:53.119
cover for people who were doing intelligence tasks.

591
00:42:53.719 --> 00:42:58.159
Pretty let me ask you this pretty much. It's been

592
00:42:58.199 --> 00:43:04.440
my observation as an amateur investigator. I've written a book

593
00:43:04.440 --> 00:43:08.440
about the Kennedy's, and in general, I'd say a pretty

594
00:43:08.440 --> 00:43:12.199
good track to follow is follow the money. Did you

595
00:43:12.239 --> 00:43:13.400
find that to be true?

596
00:43:13.760 --> 00:43:16.800
And it certainly was true with the foundations that were

597
00:43:16.800 --> 00:43:23.159
funded secretly and whose monies were being channeled into these programs,

598
00:43:23.400 --> 00:43:28.079
And there were records of this, and they were trackable,

599
00:43:28.400 --> 00:43:31.679
and there had been some reporting, but I hadn't seen

600
00:43:32.400 --> 00:43:38.800
anywhere else really the time to specific individuals, including Robert's

601
00:43:38.800 --> 00:43:43.440
story and John McCloy and others who were within that

602
00:43:43.519 --> 00:43:49.559
intelligence influence network. So I think it covers the book

603
00:43:49.599 --> 00:43:53.920
covers some new ground as to what we might expect,

604
00:43:53.920 --> 00:43:58.320
but it also asked a question. Lawrence Wright was extremely

605
00:43:58.320 --> 00:44:02.119
influential in a book on the War on Terror. The

606
00:44:02.320 --> 00:44:05.480
book was called The Looming Tower, and it was an

607
00:44:05.519 --> 00:44:09.239
examination of al Qaeda in the wake of nine to eleven.

608
00:44:10.039 --> 00:44:16.639
So I when I came to understand his history undisclosed

609
00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:22.199
history with individuals tied to these CIA programs. It raised

610
00:44:22.239 --> 00:44:25.800
for me a question as to what kind of source

611
00:44:26.159 --> 00:44:30.280
opportunities he had that many journalists might not have, and

612
00:44:30.920 --> 00:44:34.880
how those sources might have colored his take on the

613
00:44:34.920 --> 00:44:38.199
war on terror, on al Caeda and on nine eleven.

614
00:44:38.519 --> 00:44:43.079
Okay, yeah, and he had access that was quite amazing.

615
00:44:44.039 --> 00:44:47.400
Let me just before we have to go, what's your

616
00:44:47.480 --> 00:44:52.920
take on this? Bob Woodward, who is famous for the

617
00:44:52.960 --> 00:44:58.119
Watergate investigation as a reporter, and he's published more books

618
00:44:58.159 --> 00:45:03.000
than I can imagine anyone, And what's your take on

619
00:45:03.079 --> 00:45:03.880
Bob Woodward?

620
00:45:04.440 --> 00:45:07.320
Well, you know, interestingly enough, in the course of this

621
00:45:07.679 --> 00:45:10.239
I worked with a man named Hank Albarelli, who had

622
00:45:10.280 --> 00:45:14.840
written a book about scientists for the CIA, Frank Olson,

623
00:45:15.400 --> 00:45:18.880
during the days when the CIA was doing experiments with LSD,

624
00:45:19.719 --> 00:45:23.280
and Frank Olsen wound up going out a tenth four

625
00:45:23.400 --> 00:45:25.920
window in New York in the company of some other

626
00:45:26.119 --> 00:45:30.760
individuals from the agency, and there was always speculation that

627
00:45:30.840 --> 00:45:36.760
it was an LSD related matter. But Alborelli introduced me

628
00:45:36.960 --> 00:45:41.199
to a man named Lenn Colodney, and Lenn Colodney had

629
00:45:41.199 --> 00:45:45.400
written a book called The Silent Coup, and he had

630
00:45:45.440 --> 00:45:50.280
been a businessman, but he became interested in Bob Woodward

631
00:45:50.519 --> 00:45:54.559
after Bob Woodward was supervising a reporter that wrote a

632
00:45:54.599 --> 00:45:58.800
story about him, and he began to pursue some things

633
00:45:58.800 --> 00:46:02.119
pertaining to that, and then discovered that there were some

634
00:46:02.239 --> 00:46:05.679
things that the public didn't know about Bob Woodward, including

635
00:46:05.719 --> 00:46:10.599
the fact that he had been involved in naval intelligence

636
00:46:10.719 --> 00:46:14.079
while he was still with the US Navy, and that

637
00:46:14.159 --> 00:46:17.440
he had been a briefer to Alexander Haig in the

638
00:46:17.440 --> 00:46:21.239
White House before he ever became a reporter at the

639
00:46:21.320 --> 00:46:26.960
Washington Post. Okay, and so he tried to get what Woodward,

640
00:46:27.039 --> 00:46:29.159
after his naval service, tried to get a job at

641
00:46:29.159 --> 00:46:32.719
the Washington Post, but was deferred to another newspaper, a

642
00:46:32.760 --> 00:46:35.800
smaller paper, where he worked for a while, and then

643
00:46:36.119 --> 00:46:39.280
within a year went to the Washington Post and then

644
00:46:39.440 --> 00:46:46.159
was assigned one of the major stories in our journalistic history,

645
00:46:46.400 --> 00:46:49.519
which is become legend and really spawned so much of

646
00:46:49.559 --> 00:46:54.280
the interest in investigative reporting. The way Water allowed me

647
00:46:54.559 --> 00:47:00.320
and I talked about the fact that he had reached

648
00:47:00.320 --> 00:47:04.719
the conclusion, and he did interviews with Woodward over this,

649
00:47:05.039 --> 00:47:09.440
and he said Woodward had never denied his intelligence connections

650
00:47:09.480 --> 00:47:13.960
but wouldn't talk directly about them. So I think there's

651
00:47:14.039 --> 00:47:16.800
a I think there's more to the story, as we

652
00:47:16.920 --> 00:47:22.199
often say about Bob Woodward's position, in that Colonney took

653
00:47:22.239 --> 00:47:26.880
the position that, much like many people believe in the

654
00:47:27.000 --> 00:47:33.239
Kennedy assassination, that Nixon's resignation was a regime change that

655
00:47:33.400 --> 00:47:39.480
was orchestrated by those who have intelligence connections that were

656
00:47:39.519 --> 00:47:46.800
interested in snubbing any efforts toward detone that Nixon was

657
00:47:46.960 --> 00:47:49.159
interested in, and the same with Kennedy.

658
00:47:50.920 --> 00:47:57.639
It's all so fascinating. It is a very It is

659
00:47:57.840 --> 00:48:02.679
very because it all kind of is weaving together kind

660
00:48:02.719 --> 00:48:07.840
of an interesting, strange, strange way, and it's so interesting

661
00:48:07.920 --> 00:48:12.440
how a lot of our history goes back to that assassination.

662
00:48:12.960 --> 00:48:17.679
It was just a major turning point for our country

663
00:48:18.360 --> 00:48:23.119
and for the world, and a lot of people literally

664
00:48:23.280 --> 00:48:24.079
ran cover.

665
00:48:25.000 --> 00:48:28.480
Yes they did. I was a sophomore in high school

666
00:48:28.519 --> 00:48:31.880
when that happened, and I remember watching on our black

667
00:48:31.920 --> 00:48:34.639
and white television the events over the next weekend as

668
00:48:34.679 --> 00:48:37.920
it all unfolded and the nation was tied to its

669
00:48:38.360 --> 00:48:41.639
television screens. And we're still talking about it these many

670
00:48:41.719 --> 00:48:42.760
many decades later.

671
00:48:43.159 --> 00:48:46.679
Oh, for sure, I remember that Thanksgiving holiday we just

672
00:48:46.880 --> 00:48:49.679
lived in front of the tv. You know, Dan, Thank

673
00:48:49.719 --> 00:48:53.719
you so much for coming on in sharing Manchurian journalists

674
00:48:53.719 --> 00:48:59.239
with our listeners and it's been enjoyable meeting you and

675
00:48:59.440 --> 00:49:03.760
sharing you with everyone and everyone. Thank you for entering

676
00:49:03.840 --> 00:49:07.119
the no line zone with us today and we look

677
00:49:07.280 --> 00:49:11.440
forward to seeing you next Thursday. It's going to be

678
00:49:11.719 --> 00:49:17.039
Halloween week and Ron Fitzgerald is coming on the show

679
00:49:17.199 --> 00:49:25.480
and he actually is the mayor of Hell, Michigan, and

680
00:49:25.519 --> 00:49:29.280
we're going to share a lot of fun. I'm a

681
00:49:29.360 --> 00:49:33.119
former Michigander. I've never been to Hell, Michigan, but I'm

682
00:49:33.159 --> 00:49:38.599
sure it's going to be interesting. Thank you everyone, and

683
00:49:38.960 --> 00:49:43.880
take care and stay safe.

684
00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:48.119
We want to thank you for listening to January Jones

685
00:49:48.320 --> 00:49:53.039
sharing success stories. Always remember miss jones personal mantra, if

686
00:49:53.079 --> 00:49:56.039
you can think it, you can do it. That's what

687
00:49:56.119 --> 00:49:58.079
all of our aguests have done with their lives, and

688
00:49:58.280 --> 00:50:01.280
so can you. You are the ultimate success coach in

689
00:50:01.320 --> 00:50:03.599
your own life. All you need to do will be

690
00:50:03.639 --> 00:50:06.920
to start sharing your own story with your family and friends.

691
00:50:07.480 --> 00:50:09.880
We hope that our guest stories will encourage you to

692
00:50:09.960 --> 00:50:13.199
explore an equation in your future that will combine your

693
00:50:13.280 --> 00:50:16.719
creativity plus connecting with others will enable you to be

694
00:50:16.800 --> 00:50:21.840
successful too. Always remembered, your passion plus your purpose will

695
00:50:21.880 --> 00:50:27.440
equal prosperity as you explore the wonderful world of January

696
00:50:27.519 --> 00:50:28.760
Jones